Can I sue the Catholic Church for refusing to perform a civil partnership ceremony in their church?
I aksed the local Bishop, and he refused, but surely this is illegal under the Laws of England? Can I sue them in the Court of Human Rights for this outrage? Why should the Catholic church be allowed to discriminate against gay men and women?
Yes you can …. ^_^
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October 25 2009 12:08 pm | Catholic
tjsgigante on 25 Oct 2009 at 5:57 pm #
And this exactly is why Prop 8 in California is such a big deal.
About your question, I honestly don’t know, but some people have told me yes, others don’t think you can.
It’s tough. Church rights v. minority rights.
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KatrinaP on 25 Oct 2009 at 6:09 pm #
Why would a gay couple want to be married in a Catholic church? Seems like it would only be to stir up a hornets nest and get some attention.
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white dove on 25 Oct 2009 at 6:20 pm #
Why would you want him to do something that God says is reprobate ? Romans 1:28, Lev. 18:22
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GMCastanza on 25 Oct 2009 at 7:04 pm #
I am an American, so I can’t directly answer for England, but basically in a free country, which I assume England is, people have freedom of conscience.
Plus, with England’s dodgy relationship with Catholics over the centuries, I’m sure they are not going to antagonize the Church with this matter.
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Barrel Bottom on 25 Oct 2009 at 7:37 pm #
No, absolutely not
I am a huge proponet that all people should have the right to marry, but cannot dictate to a religious body what kind of services they must administer. You can keep them from committing a crime, but you cannot force them to take an action that they view as against their own tenets, irregardless of how we disagree with them.
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answer4you on 25 Oct 2009 at 8:22 pm #
No you cannot. The Catholic Church is a non-profit organization that has been established for it’s members and those who are also Catholic. As it is private property, they have the right to refuse service to you.
As it is also a religious organization, it has the right to not perform anything that is against their religious beliefs.
You should stop with claims of discrimination between gays and lesbians… what you are trying to do goes against the crux of the beliefs. As such, they cannot be forced do perform the ceremony, just as much as you cannot force a Muslim to eat beef.
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livingthelife on 25 Oct 2009 at 8:34 pm #
No you cant. Do you really think that the court of human rights and any other law in england or otherwise cares more about some gay than the largest and most powerfull church on earth.
The Catholic Chruch could discriminate on you based on not being catholic, not being baptised, not having first communion, not taking the sacrament of confirmation and not going to pennance.
Finaly they can discriminate on the fact that you are in perpetual sin by engaging in grossly abomnation before god.
They can stop a protestant getting married in a Church!
You have no chance, but by all means go ahead and get ready to pay their legal costs!
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Daver on 25 Oct 2009 at 9:20 pm #
<<Can I sue the Catholic Church for refusing to perform a civil partnership ceremony in their church?>>
You can sue ‘anyone’ for ‘anything’. The relevant quesiton really is, "can you win a lawsuit against the Catholic Church, for refusing to perform a civil partnership ceremony?"
The answer is:
YES you can sue
NO you cannot win.
Reason being, the Church is under absolutely no obligation whatsoever to perform civil partnerships.
If you feel you must go to court for something, it would be a more productive use of your time, and the court’s time, to ask the court for a civil partnership rather than an unwinnable lawsuit.
<<I aksed the local Bishop, and he refused, but surely this is illegal under the Laws of England? Can I sue them in the Court of Human Rights for this outrage?>>
If it is a "civil partnership" you seek, you don’t need the Church.
If it is Holy Matrimony you seek, you DO need the Church, but the Church reserves the Authority to approve or deny such requests.
<<Why should the Catholic church be allowed to discriminate against gay men and women?>>
The problem is you’re asking the Church to do something that is theologically invalid – meaning the Church CAN’T do it.
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pepgurli on 25 Oct 2009 at 9:32 pm #
Well being gay voilates catholic teaching so aren’t you disrespecting their beliefs by asking in the first place?
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sparki777 on 25 Oct 2009 at 10:17 pm #
The Catholic Church is not a civil authority, so it is not possible for the Catholic Church to perform a civil partnership ceremony.
The Catholic Church does perform a set number of rites/Sacraments for its members. If you are not a member, the Church has no obligation to deliver those Sacraments to you. If you *are* a member, you can get those Sacraments, but there’s no point in asking for rites that don’t exist.
I am sure you cannot sue a religious organization for not having a CIVIL rite, particularly because the CIVIL rite you seek is available from CIVIL authorities all over the country.
The Catholic Church does NOT discriminate against gay men and women. Gay men and women are welcome to belong to the Church, receive the full measure of help/assistance from the Church that they need, are encouraged to become saints and can participate fully in all forms of worship and devotion in the Church. They can also receive ALL of the Sacraments that are available to all other members.
Of course, not everybody receives all the sacraments — many people gay or straight are not called to the priesthood or religious life, so they would not receive the Sacrament of Holy Orders. In terms of the Sacrament of Holy Matrimony, even gay men and women can get this, but it requires a spouse of opposite gender and of course, gay men and women often do not want such a thing.
Defining marriage as a union between one man and one woman (and God in the case of Catholicism) is not discriminating. The reason why marriage is only heterosexual for Catholics is because procreation is a major part of the institution for us. And obviously, two men cannot procreate together because neither offers a womb or ovum necessary for the process. Likewise, two women cannot procreate together because neither offers a sperm necessary for the process. It is not a mean or discriminating thing to say that a homosexual couple cannot procreate together — it’s a simple biological FACT. It’s just like saying that mammals and insects procreate differently, with mammals giving birth to live offspring and insects laying eggs that hatch into larvae which later are transformed into the recognizable insect. It’s just DIFFERENT. And it’s okay to be different.
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imacatholic2 on 25 Oct 2009 at 10:43 pm #
Yes, you can sue.
No, you will not win.
After you destroy the freedom of religion and you going to destroy the freedom of speech next?
The entire world agreed to include freedom of religion in the United Nations’ Universal Declaration of Human Rights. See Article 2: http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html
The citizens of the United States think this freedom is just as important as the freedoms of speech or the press. All are part of the 1st Amendment of the U.S. Constitution: http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.billofrights.html
Even the Catholic Church seeks and supports the freedom of religion for all human beings. In the Vatican II document, Declaration on Religious Freedom, Dignitatis Humanae (Human Dignity), the Church states:
The human person has a right to religious freedom. This freedom means that all men are to be immune from coercion on the part of individuals or of social groups and of any human power, in such wise that no one is to be forced to act in a manner contrary to his own beliefs, whether privately or publicly, whether alone or in association with others, within due limits.
For the entire document, see: http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_decl_19651207_dignitatis-humanae_en.html
With love in Christ.
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The Lost Symbol on 25 Oct 2009 at 11:32 pm #
Well you could… You can sue anyone for pretty much anything… I could sue my mother for giving birth to me if I want… And my guess is that your lawsuit would get thrown out about as fast as mine would…
Good Luck… You’re going to need it…
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Proud Liberal Christian…
Bob on 26 Oct 2009 at 12:00 am #
No. Marrying you would be against the Catholic Religion.
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danyelzon on 26 Oct 2009 at 12:25 am #
Yes you can …. ^_^
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I♥GOD on 26 Oct 2009 at 12:44 am #
Go ahead and try.
It’ll be a waste of your own time.
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Catholic
losangeles.baby on 26 Oct 2009 at 12:50 am #
If the church does not believe in homosexual marriage then they can choose not to marry someone–thats just how it is nowadays
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